The Glorification of Mediocrity

In this episode, Daniel and Peter discuss the glorification of mediocrity, mentorship, gratefulness, and self-accountability. They attempt to uncover the motivations for the rise of the mass acceptance of mediocrity, discuss why this issue is of significance, reflect on some of their past experiences, and discuss how we might collectively move forward to resolve this issue.

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Transcript

Daniel Curtis: 0:24

Welcome to season one, episode two of The (all) Unknowing podcast. In this episode, Daniel and Peter discuss the glorification of mediocrity, mentorship, gratefulness, and self accountability. Remember to check out our Patreon page at patreon.com/theallunknowing where we have exclusive content, collaborative discussions, and active community engagement. Now join us as we jump into the unknown. So, you know, at the end of the last episode, we started talking about the glorification of mediocrity within society, and obviously very, very much focused on on the school system right now. But, you know, I also want to take a step back, because it's as much about what happens at school is directly influenced by what's happening all around us, right? It's not like it lives on an island, right? I mean, it is us we are the school essentially, like as human beings. So

Peter: 1:18

I think one thing, too, it's a feedback loop, right? Because then what happens in the schools feeds what's happening around us, and so on, and so forth. So it's a much more involved system than I think a lot of people think about in their day to day lives unless something major happens.

Daniel Curtis: 1:37

Oh, without question. And I think it's, it's so important to make that distinction, because we, we can't view it as an entity that is in and of itself, right? Like, we are a again, like we're all part of it. And it's being shaped by everything that's going on around us, you know, and there's a certain degree of empathic authoritarianism, as I like to refer to it, that's happening there. And it's because we don't want people to lose, right? And I'm I can understand where someone would, would perceive that where where we might derive that. And it's, it's the, it's Freudian at its base, right? Because it's the whole Oedipal complex that builds off that that motherly instinct, essentially, to to not let go, right? We want to baby people, we don't want to see them fail, like we're here to protect them. And that over protectionism is what's not allowing them to flourish, essentially, to become one into their own being. Right.

Peter: 2:46

Yeah. And I think this is something that people need to dig into a lot personal lives as well as, you know, influencing their local school systems by getting involved in however they need to, what is the definition of success? Because what, what I believe it to be is vastly different than what a lot of the administrators in school believe it to be. Right. You know, as we mentioned, last time, I've been fortunate enough to be able to send my kids to private school, right. Okay, the assumption is that the college is that an accurate assumption for 100% of their students? No, it's not the 99%? Probably, what there's always some kids who just aren't cut out for it, either by dint of their own particular talents and gifts or attitude or what have you, right? So if these kids decide, you know, what, I'm gonna go to trade school, I want to be an electrician, that's a failure. In the eyes of the administration, in my eyes, that's a major success, because at an early age, this young man woman understand that, hey, college isn't for me, I still got to earn a living, this is a pretty good way to do it. And there's value in learning these types of skills. Right? Yeah. So again, referencing back to our discussion from the last episode, how do we societally, accurately or correctly prepare these kids for one or the other paths, right? And then all right, we get past this sort of bifurcation. We now have young adults who have no clue how to set a budget, how to balance a checkbook, so on and so forth. So in my proverbial example of the of the electrician, sure, dude can go through trade school, ended up being an apprentice, journeyman, master, and then maybe he wants to start his business, but he only has like a vague idea of what's involved with that, right, potentially. I mean, I know from personal experience, that's not the case. These guys pick up a lot along the way in terms of bidding jobs and budgeting and all that.

Daniel Curtis: 4:45

There's a whole process that's learned and every craft every trade, right, for sure, right.

Peter: 4:49

So okay, there's still the common denominator across all strata, that you have to understand income as x expenses as y and x minus y has to be greater than zero or you're screwed, right? And this is also part of the the abject failure and again, I think it goes back to the expectation of mediocrity, because the whole thing is let's just get the kids through school past test. At what point do you stop to step back and say, Why are we putting these kids through school and what happens at the end result, though my problem they're out of high school without Point C A good luck,

Daniel Curtis: 5:26

right? And we can't have, we can't have that line of demarcation in there and great. And the goal can't just be like, let's get kids out of high school. I mean, it's a unit of measure, perhaps, for the general success of the school, which we can set aside for a topic here, and maybe later in the session, but you're, it's, it's beyond that. It has to be beyond that, if we're only looking at what's right in front of our faces, we're not seeing what we're actually preparing these kids for, like, you know, we're teaching them how to learn. That's what we should be doing. We're teaching them how society works, how we can all fit into this bigger picture, how we can collaborate and work together, that there's value in what people do outside of academia. Right? The fact that these houses that we live in are built, by and large by people that will never go to college or have limited college experience,

Peter: 6:17

but hopefully know what they're doing and have learned their trade appropriately. Right,

Daniel Curtis: 6:20

exactly. And there's no precondition that they have to that one needs to go to a particular university to be able to wire a house effectively as such that we can have this conversation right now.

Peter: 6:31

Right? Think about it right? Again, like one of the things we all take for granted, is especially the last three years to three years with the pandemic. Everybody's been working from home, do it there were a lot of guys in bucket trucks. Well, for the last 30 years that made that possible. For people forget that.

Daniel Curtis: 6:48

Yeah, I I'm not going to go pull a wire. I mean, I do I do I know how to do it. Maybe? Am I going to go electrocute myself and have it done to code? No, I would rather have done the code. And I'm going to pay the electrician to do it. And you know what, again, that's that's the beauty of the system that we live in that we can pick up the phone and solve that problem, because there are skilled craftsmen, tradesmen, accelerated doesn't just stop with the electricity. I mean, this goes to all facets of society. And it's something that we have to think we have to think bigger than then school and test score, we need to think about how can we really enable each individual student, each individual person to fill that the their best? To how do we draw the best out of them? How do we bring forth that potential?

Peter: 7:36

And that's the tyranny of mediocrity, right? The I think by and large, too many people are focused on this very narrow view of what it is to be a young adult in in the world today. I suspect that, again, we're talking about America primarily. But I suspect if you go elsewhere in the world, there's going to be Shades of Grey on this exact same discussion, right. So you now have somebody and going through whatever academic system it is, and you're like, you know, we don't want to overwhelm them. So let's cut back the amount of books that we read during the year, let's cut back the amount of homework that we do, because it's too much, I would argue it's too much garbage and not enough quality material. And that if you increased the quality material, the kids would respond. The problem by and large, throughout all tiers of education, is the lack of engagement by the student, why the students are much more capable today than they've ever been, in spite of what everybody wants to say about back in my day, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? untrue. more so because every kid out there one way or another, either through his phone, through the Chromebook they get at school, to the library computers that are open use all that type of stuff has access to volumes of information that were inconceivable to previous generations short of maybe advanced collegiate degrees in hard disciplines into meaning stem into like, Right, absolutely. So if that's the case, why are we limiting these kids by expecting so little of them? I don't think the answer is ever to lower the bar. I think it's to keep the bar at a very high level and then say, Okay, kids, I know you can do this. Well, if you're having trouble, why, then we address those deficiencies, and get the kids were having trouble meeting that bar up over it, rather than lowering it and you know, making it infertile coursework for everybody else. But I looked at the MIT entrance exam for 1876. Right? Okay. I don't understand why, you know, today, people are like, Wow, that's so hard. No, it's not, it should be the basic level of knowledge coming out today. 100 years after that exam was written, that the average student should be able to do some of this stuff, admittedly was a little was a little event. It's a lot of it is what I would consider high school level math.

Daniel Curtis: 9:55

Some of them might be like, nuanced, or specialized to three purpose of that university to the core concept of the university or something like that. Yeah, agreed. Yeah. And by and large, not everyone's a mathematician, I mean, I'm gonna sit here and make mistakes. And it's going to happen and you know, we all have our own stories and backgrounds. And I'm more than happy to share that here in a few minutes too. But I think that when we when we set the bar higher, okay. And we're helping the students By identifying what the deficiencies are, and look, not everyone's going to be a mathematician, I don't need people to specialize in theoretical mathematics. Like that's not that's not what the bar is. The bar here is that we're all learning to a certain degree, by and large, what it takes to be coherent members of this society that we live in, that we can all participate together and that we all find our ways, again, that we're drawing that potential, we're trying to draw the best forth from each individual student, the best that we can write the best that we know how and and again, if we're not doing that, it's a deficiency on us. And we are, we will all suffer for it.

Peter: 10:57

Okay, it's easier to make a kid feel good, by patting him on the head and give him a cookie. Correct. And it is to say, Hey, you're not meeting the expectation that I have for you. Because I know you can do better. What's going on? Let's let's let's work on it so that you can do it. Because certainly you're capable. I guarantee you, kids will respond more to that, because then they'll say, hey, all right. teacher thinks I can do this. I know I can do it. I gotta figure out why I'm having trouble. Yeah, and

Daniel Curtis: 11:27

not everyone will have the strongest of home backgrounds with parents that push. Right, right. I mean, I, I've coached multiple sports for my kids, both in assistant and head capacities. And I think that that's integral into understanding this concept of mediocrity, like, we're not handing out medals for everybody. Like, there's no, you know, consolation prize, so to speak. Yeah, we're aiming for something. And you know, what the kids, what I've learned is, when you set a standard, and you show them the way, okay, yeah. The vast majority of them will respond positively to that. And that's just human nature. Okay, that's, that's not something that we have to manufacture. People want, when they want that. And

Peter: 12:15

I think, you know, again, it's about building methodologies. Right. So you know, take any sport football, right? All right. Or baseball to make it even easier. Okay, I was at bat five times during practice, I struck out three. All right, let me do better. Next time, I struck out twice, and I got a foul ball. That's an improvement. A walk on to first base, for sure. You know, next time, I actually got a first base hit on my own. So there's a progression. So you know, is this kid going to the majors? No. But is he exercising control over his environment, working at a skill, whether or not it's a trivial skills irrelevant, it still shows the discipline, that, okay, if I put in the work, if I follow the process, that coach tells me I need to follow to improve, I will improve and alright, that's pretty cool. You know, now I can hit, I can hit the ball reliably. And I get on base, you know, two times out of 10, rather than striking out tonight. Right? There's merit to that. Absolutely. And there's merit to adopting that approach across the board. I mean, as you said, not every kid's gonna go to MIT. No kidding, right? I mean, that's a that's a specialized set, every kid absolutely should be able to do basic algebra. And I think the expectation is saying, Well, you know, that's only for STEM fields is demeaning to all concerned, where, you know, the, the well rounded, student finishing, you know, secondary education should have a certain cultural and intellectual vocabulary, which is, in my mind, always, you know, math, science, history, you know, sociology, you know, even economy to a certain part, right? Have the have the understanding that this is how you fit in a broader spectrum of what we call society. And it isn't just good enough to get, you know, a c plus on your spelling test, as you know, your final exam or whatever you want to pick for an example.

Daniel Curtis: 14:05

Yes. And measuring in that way is not necessarily the most meaningful, either. Right. So I mean, I think some of the things that we've had on thus far, it's like, you know, the, the school can only be focused on getting as many kids see your hire out the door. Right. So meeting whatever the standards aren't, I'm not saying that. We shouldn't have it, obviously, here. We have to have standards. Yeah. But the standard has to be the expectation that we're actually developing children, again, towards their fullest potential, so that they can go on to the path that they will go on to in life. Right. I'm talking from elementary school through high school, right beyond that, is that yeah, exactly. And then beyond high school, when they leave that high school, when they leave those high school doors, the day that they are in a position to understand what's what's going on around them, that they can go and contribute immediately via through trade or craft or any other job role. Because there are plenty of jobs that we need for plenty of varieties of skill sets and academic capability. Okay. And again, it's a very small subset of people, even the graduate that end up going and graduating from college. Right. I mean, I I can speak to that politically. I mean, I I graduated in high school. Sure, graduate high school, and I tried college a few times. didn't work out for me quite Canada too. So in some ways, I've looked back at that. And then I thought, Well, what happened? I mean, I was I grew up in Houston, Texas, I went to school there. What was it? Eighth grade, like towards the end of eighth grade, there's this academic assessment that high schoolers have to take in Texas. And I was the teachers had me take it there. At the end of that time, early, like way early, they usually start testing kids in 10th grade, I pass the test, like flawlessly and they're like, so I'm like, Okay, what do I need to do now? Can I just go to college or something? And they're like, No, you still have to go to school. I'm like, so obviously, you can probably imagine what happened after that. Motivation. I went from 4.0 student to like, 2.6 By the time I graduated, right? Because I like I felt stuck there. Like there was no, there was no opportunity for me. And it kind of shaped me in a bit of a darker way as I'm an optimist. And some people might be able to tell that just by listening to me talk about DAX right. And I still have that mindset today. But there was a period of time in my life where I was very much, far more nihilistic, perhaps. Yeah. And I think part of it's just because of my experience there, and I'm not going to belabor the point. But the the point is, we have to, we have to think bigger.

Peter: 16:44

Right? Well, but I think, you know, we should focus on that a little bit. Right. So what allowed you to change your thinking, was there a particular event that was a sort of like the impetus to do it? Somebody gives you a piece of advice, what is it? Because this sort of thing, I think, is all too common. Again, we talk in the post high school Crowd NOW, post I absolutely, you're 2021 2223 out in the world. And alright, you made some bad decisions, right? You're in a funk. How do you break out of that? And how do you get back on some type of constructive path?

Daniel Curtis: 17:20

Yeah, I mean, I would say initially, my thought is I never gave up on trying to find my place in the world. So there's that, then no matter how, how frustrated I'm going to become, I mean, you know, there are people that will hire wouldn't hire me because I don't have a college degree. There are other people that didn't hire me, because they were like, you'll leave after a month, because they have way more than us about this. So. And they probably were, right, right. And thinking that this as much as I wanted the job at the time. And, you know, also to that end, I've always found myself, one, I've always maintained an attitude of gratefulness, of gratitude, per se. And I'm honestly grateful just to be alive for the experience. So and, well, there's a few times in my life that I can talk to where that was almost not the case. So I have some other other perspective there as well. You know what I mean? So it's, it's not it's not unwarranted, I suppose. But I think about it as a when you're going through something you can you can seek out truth. I knew that I wasn't in the best of places mentally. I mean, I had kind of devolved pretty rapidly in that way. And like I said, it was this very nihilistic approach to, if the abstraction of everything is worth nothing, essentially that then why why does it matter? Why care why, and what I, what I thought after a great deal of living life, just living and hopefully paying attention a little bit was that I woke up one day and said, You know what? This, this isn't, for me, this is the wrong level of analysis. This was the wrong level of abstraction, like any I think any reasonably intelligent person can can come up with that initial nihilistic conclusion. But I would say it's vastly and categorically wrong.

Peter: 19:11

So there's, there's two or three things you said that I think are really, really worth highlighting. Right. So number one, perseverance, you stuck to it. Okay. Yeah, life sucks, but it sucks now, it doesn't mean it's always gonna suck. So,

Daniel Curtis: 19:27

I want to highlight that I mean, I was like living in a trailer. Okay. Like I was, I was very broke very poor. And most of it was my own doing, but the couple 100% Honest, like, right. So, but yeah, please continue.

Peter: 19:43

Yeah, so okay. But again, you had shorter, like a moment to pause, reflect and realize, this ain't happened, and I gotta get back on the correct on the horse and keep writing. Right, right. Okay. Well, you also, were able to reach out to people around you, I'm sure and say, hey, you know, what do you think? And take somebody else's advice and integrate it into, you know, what you think it was? And in this case, change it right?

Daniel Curtis: 20:09

Yes, I had. I've had a great network of friends that I'm again very grateful for my entire life. And one in particular out in Houston. I was living in Alabama at the time, and university wasn't working out for me and I again, I'm was in a very bad place and mentally just self consumed. It's this sucks feedback loop right? It goes on until you break it until you step out of it. And yeah, he, he told me I said, You know what, come here, I'll and he supported me he helped me, he got me back out there and pull up helped me kind of find myself out of the out of that scenario. And I found a job actually working for HP on the Superdome systems at the time doing an engineering work on those, which was very fun. It was those two things primarily, for anybody who doesn't know what a Superdome is. It's huge refrigerator server complex that they can chain multiple of them together. And they were used for missile defense systems targeting systems and for processing telecommunications transactions, because well, all those things take up, you know, millions to billions of calculations per second in real time. So.

Peter: 21:13

But again, you mentioned this that I counted three times grateful. And I think this is a very good piece of advice for any young people that are maybe watching it, where it's a fine line, right. And I've said this to numerous teenagers, early 20s people that I talked to, you know, based on my, my children's peer groups and some activities that I got involved with as well, right? people more likely than not are willing to mentor you, okay. But you have to realize the most valuable thing in existence is time. So if someone is taking their time to help you out, be appreciative of the fact. And don't assume that you can keep on going back to the well over and over and over. Because now it goes from a mentor, situation, to wow, why you pestering me get up off your ass and figure it out yourself? Good. I told you what I'm going to tell you. Right? Yeah, if you can balance those two, somewhat opposite ends of the spectrum. I think that's the key. And then remembering people, well past the event of aid, right? I mean, how nice is it when you get a call from somebody you haven't heard of in a while, and you hear? Oh, man, how you doing? Now? You know, I was just thinking and blah, blah, nothing, just calling up to shoot the breeze to exchange pleasantries. A minor thing, but it's very meaningful, especially the older you get, when you start getting to the point in life, where your friends start dying, right? So now all of a sudden, the guy that you thought was always gonna be there when you called up isn't? Well, as time goes by, that happens more and more and more. So, you know, do you want to be the the lonely guy living alone in his room? solely at the end of life? Right? No, no, nobody wants that. But there's a way to avoid that if you stay engaged, and observe the social graces, which increasingly, are falling by the wayside and definitely are not taught in school today, as they were when I was in school. So I mean, that sounds like an old guy thing. I know. But there's a lot to be said for it.

Daniel Curtis: 23:23

There is, there's a tremendous amount to be said for that. I mean, and even even now, I'm reflecting thoroughly about that time. And it's it's, I mean, I wouldn't be who I am today, if it weren't for many, many people in my life. And that is not lost on me whatsoever.

Peter: 23:36

I mean, I agree. I feel the same. Yeah. And, in from a... it makes me emotional to think about, honestly. I mean, it's it's a bit overwhelming, actually. But the I mean, what is it about that? I mean, they had a high standard for me. Yeah. And I was pulled to that. Now I was, I was I was certainly pointed that way, I would say pull because I'm a I'm pretty, pretty stubborn, you know. But once I got to the point where I could see the vision, I could see it, I was doing it, I was participating in it, I could see that path for myself. And I can see that path for other people. And that I think that's that's something about humanity, right, that we want the best and other people if we're doing it, right, that's what we want. And this, this, I think, is the core of what has been lost along the way. How do you even have that thought in your head, if along the way, you haven't been exposed to great works of literature, or philosophy or what have you, right? You literally cannot conceive of it, because that thought has not ever entered your head. Because you're surrounded by a very negative environment. And this is true. For far too many people are all strata of society. Well, if you can get to the point where you can start teaching these kids, hey, there's more than one way to look at the world. And step back and sort of take yourself out of the equation for all your personal issues, good, bad, indifferent, and start thinking about it as part of a larger tapestry that affects far beyond wherever you are, right. So you know, I mean, in your example, yeah, you live in a trailer now, doesn't mean you're always going to be here, but I've heard a lot of Very defeatist thinking in younger people, especially if you're going through a rough patch, we sadly far too many are. We like things are never going to change, not kid, they will change if you want them to. And if you work for it, I mean, you know, are you going to be, you know, rock star movie star? No, probably not. I mean, maybe who knows. But that doesn't mean that you have to stop saying, hey, I really hate living in this crappy area. I hate having this crappy, you know, end to end of the road job that's never gonna go anywhere. I hate not having any skills, all of these are correctable problems. But you have to have the mentality to understand that they are correctable problems, and then methodologies exist for you to overcome them. And this is, again, why I think this expectation of mediocrity that it has been engendered over the last, I don't know, maybe 30, 35 years in school first. And then society as a whole has come to really define things in a very negative way in a limiting way. Which is probably in my opinion, the key thing that we have to address societally, at least in the US and I suspect other countries.

Daniel Curtis: 26:36

I mean, I think part of the problem there is this, this concept of ideological possession overwhelming the it's creating, a totalitarian viewpoint of how that needs to be that this mediocrity is the way right, and it's the way to tyranny is honestly, it's the way to, because if we can, if we're not compelled to push ourselves forward to think to want to help our fellow human being learn, you know, you know, again, we're kind of, we're doomed, as far as I'm concerned.

Peter: 27:11

Yeah. And I think that's a key point, because now we're defining the intellectual vocabulary of our generation, multiple generations. And this is why I've always felt, you know, George Orwell's 1984, is one of the most seminal works that should be studied at all levels in high school. Because in a way, the, it was very much present of what was of what happened. But he was limited in his horror, full expectations of what would happen. And there's one key phrase in the book, where the protagonist is having a discussion with somebody who's very proud about the amount of words that they've eliminated from the language, and that in another 10 years, we wouldn't even be able to have this conversation. And that's probably the most horrifying concept in the book. Because if you eliminate words, you control thought, and if you control thought, you end up in a very bad place, because it's limiting in and of itself. And it allows control of a lot of people unknowingly by a very small minority that may or may not have nefarious purposes. Right.

Daniel Curtis: 28:26

It certainly allows for that level of control. And I think part of the the comical nature about you know, Orwell, in general, I mean, if if anybody knows about George Orwell, I mean, he was not exactly a conservative. Yeah, he areas predicting all of these things.

Peter: 28:40

Very far from it.

Daniel Curtis: 28:41

Exactly. And so that it's almost ironic, in a way, but the humor isn't lost on me that even someone coming from that that leftist, you know, ultra liberal, vantage point seeing this happen and seeing it play out. I mean, it's, it's the really the point I'm trying to make there is it doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum you're on, like, you know, we have our own, we have our own issues. And the problem is that we're focusing too much on the fringes instead of focusing on what actually matters.

Peter: 29:11

Yeah.

Daniel Curtis: 29:11

Which is what you and I are trying to bring forth. So...

Peter: 29:15

Very true, and an excellent point, because, you know, again, you look at it from a basic bell curve sort of thing, right? Yes, bell curves, most everybody is somewhere in the middle, right, within one standard deviation to the middle. And that will account for a large segment of whatever data set you're looking at. It's the ones at the end that are 3456 standard deviations out that depending on you know, what it is you can ignore. And I think that's very relevant in the public discourse. If you look at opinion polls, it's hysterical. Because generally 25% will take an extreme position for something 25% will take an extreme position against something, and the 50% in the middle can go either way. And I think that isn't an accidental distribution. I think there's been an intentional manipulation of the educational systems to make sure that bell curve happens. Why? Because if you can control increasingly narrow segments of the 25% on either side is something you can drive the discussion for the other 50% and give the illusion that there's broad based consensus on something when there really isn't.

Daniel Curtis: 30:21

No, no, and I think I think there is absolutely something to that. And for those of you who are statisticians, he's referring to the Pareto distribution. So the it's, it's the, we could take that up verbal, probably like four hours straight. Yeah, it's it's not it's not a trivial issue. But I think that part of what's happening too, and there's, there's a lot of times in my life where I was maybe a bit more unwilling to speak up.

Peter: 30:53

True.

Daniel Curtis: 30:54

And not like... it's different, right. And I guess, let me let me frame a little context for people that are listening. So, I will always do what I think is right, that's my moral standing. Okay. And if if speaking up about something, if I feel compelled call to action, I will certainly say it, but there's a certain degree of, maybe it's better just to shut up because the consequences outweigh the potential benefit. And if there's too much of that going on, then I think we find ourselves in a bad place, too. And I'm even here, I'm talking about this glorification of mediocrity here, because, yes, you know, why now? Why? I think that's a valid question. Well, I think now is the time that, can you know, me personally, for me, I've decided that I can't watch this happen anymore. Because I see where it's going. Right? And if I can see where it's going, and I'm a human being living in this society, and I'm grateful to be here, then I should do something about it. Okay, and, uh, bringing awareness to what's the first step, then let's try to do that.

Peter: 31:58

So and I think this is a very, very salient area to discuss. We in the US, and I imagine globally, it's the same thing are in an inflection point in terms of demographics, right? Yes, the largest generation in US history, the baby boomers are dying off. So now, they're losing their power. Some of them are desperately holding on to it, rather than accepting that, hey, the cycle is turning. So we're having a lot of conflict in terms of as this group passes, who's going in to fill the vacuum and drive the agenda? And I think a lot of people don't view it that way. And don't understand that this is one of the many things that are going on. Because, okay, we have new generations coming up. They're smaller, but because they're smaller, are they more easily radicalized one way or the other? Maybe, maybe not. But things are changing. And if you look at historical cycles, you know, the first quarter of a new century, generally tends to be some sort of upheaval, right? At least certainly, for the last two or 300 years, give or take first and last quarters, right. So if this is what's going on, we are at the point where we can start setting what the social fabric will look like for the next 2550 years. And we have a chance to either do it right, or blow it all to smithereens, metaphorically, and hopefully, not literally, given the way things have been going in the last few months.

Daniel Curtis: 33:30

Absolutely.

Peter: 33:31

I think people have to get engaged at this point. And you know, nothing dramatic. I mean, we're not talking about, you know, setting fires on the streets and all that nonsense, right, that's being manipulated by people who do not have the good of the populace as a whole in their hearts. But on the little things, you know, you coach school teams, right, give positive role models to these kids. If you see, you know, some young people that haven't trouble reach out, you know, what's going on, all right, you want to get involved, get involved local politics, you know, local charities, whatever you can do, there's plenty there, that can positively influence a large segment of people, if, you know, they're continuing to be fed emotionally, and organizationally, by you know, well meaning people who are thinking just beyond their own immediate self interest,

Daniel Curtis: 34:19

it has to start at the individual level, right, and you touched on this earlier, you know, in our, in our previous discussion, it's if I can't fix my own world, if I can't fix myself, and I can't drive it in a direction that I think that we can agree on that that is ideal, that we can move at least towards a direction of seeking truth and laying the foundation for us all to operate in the best way to draw forth the best from that individual, whoever it may be. That starts at the individual level, it starts at the community level, it starts in the family, right, and it moves up to the community and then moves upwards. We, we can't push it from the top down. And then that's kind of what that more authoritarian mindset is. It's like you have to think this way, you have to believe this and if you don't, then you're the enemy. Right. Yeah, that is the greatest threat to this country and to the world.

Peter: 35:10

And I think that is the main struggle that's happening in higher education right now.

Daniel Curtis: 35:15

Exactly.

Peter: 35:16

So you know, you look with this cancel culture nonsense. I don't know when I was at university. Yeah, University has always been left unsaid. Excuse the nature of the institution,

Daniel Curtis: 35:25

it's a progressive institution, it's going to lean that way, for sure.

Peter: 35:30

you could have the discussion. Now, everybody is so afraid of their own intellectual frailty that they don't even want to have the discussion. And they will go through an essential cancel culture checklist, which I think we should talk about, on a on another episode, as to how to suppress any opinion that is contrary to whatever their particular worldview is.

Daniel Curtis: 35:59

Yeah, that ideological narrative.

Peter: 36:01

Yeah. And well, if you have to stomp on anybody who has something different to say, than what you want to hear, really, how strong are your convictions? And how strong are the arguments that you use to base whatever agenda you have on case? Right? Yeah, I mean, you know, everybody wants to scream, ah, you're a Nazi or naughty. Okay. Number one, you're throwing a word around, that has very specific, very serious limitations, just because connotations. Excuse me. Absolutely. Just because you disagree with somebody, you don't call him a Nazi. You know, I mean, unless they are actually a Nazi.

Daniel Curtis: 36:37

Sure. I mean, they might work but probably is not the right term that we should be using. Right. And we shouldn't be classifying people in that context. Right. And we could, you know, we could deep dive in that too, but I don't think it's worth it here. The idea is that if, on this show, right, we don't attack people. We're not calling out names. We're not calling out. It's not about the person. What we're attacking here, what we're going after our ideas, concepts, things that we can just thinking modes of thinking things that we can pull out, and fix or make real or point in a better direction. Orient in a better direction. That's all that's what we're about. It's not about the individual, and it never will be because guess what, it could be any of us, right?

Peter: 37:29

But it's so now all right, we enter into much more nuanced in depth discussions, if this approach is followed, right. Once upon a time, this used to be in the public sphere, whether it be Evening News, the you know, hard magazine shows, which you know, 2020 was at one point 60 minutes was at one point, right? The whole idea those shows existed to do this in depth analysis of, you know, political world affairs, what have you, right? What is all this stuff turned into, it's all glad handing in intellectual masturbation, right? There's nothing that ever is seriously discussed in the shows, it has the veneer of severity, the veneer of gravitas. But at the end, somebody behind the scene is writing very poor propaganda. And it's very interesting to me that so few people realize that that's what's going on. I don't want to get into politics, because it's not really the focus here. But my most notable complaint about this is all the Ukraine coverage. And I literally mean all of it, it doesn't matter what side you're on in terms of whether you think, you know, one side or the other is right or wrong. It's any argument it's presented to support it is very, very poorly thought out, in my opinion. And a lot of facts are emitted across the board, why somebody has an agenda they're going to promote. And that agenda is not the benefit of stopping a war that never should have started in the first place.

Daniel Curtis: 38:54

I don't disagree with that. I think that, but

Peter: 38:56

Right. it's part of pulling forth these things. And we're hitting on topics here that become the manifestations of human nature, when, when we're not orienting ourselves. And in a better way, perhaps; we're more what I don't want to see happen in this country and anywhere in the world, really, is that we we delve into a realm of mediocrity, ultimately, we're certainly on the path there. Because, look at all the great things that have happened in society over the past 100 or 200 years. Yeah. magnificent things, and they're not happening because we sit around and stare at the wall all day, because it's easier to feel happy than it is to try hard.

Daniel Curtis: 39:46

You know, we can't be lost, you know, we shouldn't be lost to the idea that living is actually difficult.

Peter: 39:55

True.

Daniel Curtis: 39:56

Right.

Peter: 39:57

And lets not minimize that either.

Daniel Curtis: 39:59

Yeah, no, first, and I think that gets lost.

Peter: 40:02

Yeah.

Daniel Curtis: 40:02

Because I can go to the grocery store and buy food and someone's there and they'll stock it. And well, you know, I don't even have to worry about that. Right? It's just when I go there, and I buy it.

Peter: 40:12

And let's pause to think about what an incredible development that is. In terms of human history. Yes, because up until, I don't know 100 years ago, that concept did not exist, people had to toil into soil, to grow their own food, to preserve it, so on so forth, and only the extremely wealthy to not have to worry about that. And in this case, we're not even talking about what we would perceive as well. They were talking about hereditary aristocracy.

Daniel Curtis: 40:42

Yes.

Peter: 40:42

So we're extremely, extremely blessed to be living in a situation in a time and place where medicine is available. Food is available, anywhere that we want. And, you know, people will complain, I can't afford it, this, that and the other. No, there's a way right. In the United States of America, nobody should go hungry. And if they are, we have a major problem, other parts of the world different story. But, you know, again, we're talking US. And you know, same thing for health care. People say, I can't afford health care. Yeah, you can, you know, we just need to make people aware of how to do it. And again, expectations and mediocrity, right? How do kids finish school not knowing this stuff?

Daniel Curtis: 41:22

It can't be good enough, that's the problem.

Peter: 41:24

Exactly. Exactly.

Daniel Curtis: 41:26

Yeah, we cannot have a state where where we are good enough. And again, the really the focal point here is that we have to be pushing towards that, that state. You know, I mean, to sit here and think that mediocrity is going to get us anywhere that we need to be that we're going to that our lives are going to get easier that all of a sudden that we are we're going to be the benefit of what of mediocrity, like who wants to who will who watches the worst sports team on TV at night? Right? Yeah. I mean, I was watching an NHL game last night. Okay, like those are the some of the best players in the world, obviously. Why was I watching that? Because it's competitive. It's interesting. Those are some of the best players in the world. Like, yeah, it's, it's the pinnacle of the sport. What's the pinnacle of the sport of the society? Right? I mean, it's all drawing the best out of each other. It's us raising the bar, it's us pushing one another, not to fail. Right? But to be the best versions of ourselves.

Peter: 42:29

Well, in again, this is inherent, I think, to the American character. Why does everybody in the world want to come here? Right. You know, I personally met somebody in the early 90s, when I was in California, Guatemalan guy, who, or excuse me, I'll El Salvador, and he literally walked 800 miles from his home to the US to get away from the civil war that was raging at the time, right? I mean, number one, wow, what a statement to this guy's character. He had that dedication and, and the guts to do it. And you know, the Constitution a 17 year old, but even at that young age, right? I I'm gonna die. If I stay here and an extreme example, I want something better. So I'm going to walk 800 miles to the point where he wore out I forgot, I think he told me like a half dozen pairs of shoes. But along the way, walking barefoot, he encountered the kindness of strangers who would say, What are you doing? I'm leaving El Salvador, I'm going to the US. Well, you can't do it barefoot kid have some shoes, right? So the fact that people want to come here, then now and in the future, is because we have a society that does not tolerate mediocrity that says, hey, you can be the best that you want. You got to work for it, though, pal. And this is the message that's getting diluted. Again, I think it's part of a concentrated agenda, to engender helplessness in a populace to say, well, you know, life's too hard. Don't worry about it. It sucks for everybody. Yeah. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? Unacceptable, that that is not how this country was built. It's not what made it great. It's not why my father came here. Right? It was always to say, what do you want to do? Okay, go do it. And he did it. generations have done it before and since and hopefully will continue to do it. But, only if, personally I think, if we insist on the best if we insist on the best schools if we insist on the best health care if we insist on the best transportation systems, the best utility grids, you know, this is what differentiates us from a lot of parts of the world. I absolutely do not take indoor plumbing for granted. Having visited my father's village, right. You know, God bless plumbers man; that's all I'm saying.

Daniel Curtis: 44:41

Hey, man,that's that's saved many lives anyway.

Peter: 44:45

Right? And okay, even beyond, you know, the kind of tongue in cheek joke. Right? You know, what does it mean systematically that we have clean water available every time you turn on the tap? That's a miracle. Right? I remember that. You know, we don't have to worry about cholera and dysentery in this country. Other countries really have this concern, you know, for a lot of different reasons, right? Yes, this is a major accomplishment. And it didn't get to the point we are by people that are just struggling saying good enough. No, somebody said, that's good. I can make it better. Let's make it better. To the benefit of all I mean, why do we pay taxes, right? That's why we have this expertise. nation that we live in a first world country, we should have first world standard of living. And I'm refuse to entertain all this stuff about how it's disruptive in, you know, long term genocide, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, I don't buy that. And anybody who says that hasn't experienced the alternative.

Daniel Curtis: 45:41

Yeah, you're absolutely correct there. And if they have they were, I don't know, unable to perceive in some valuable way. But life is what we make it.

Peter: 45:57

Yeah.

Daniel Curtis: 45:58

Right. So if we if we let the bar be low, and that's what we want, as individual people, I mean, do you wake up in the morning and think I want to be the most terrible plumber in the world? I'd have a standard. If I'm going to school in the morning. It's, you know, what can I learn today? Right, like, what will I learn? Can I activate that, that mode of thought, can I can I bring that that desire that will out of out of the individual towards towards that positive achievement here? I mean, I know the answer is yes. But we can't we can't forget that. It's, it's with each one of us. Great, right? It lays with every individual person, right. And again, I mean, I had a conversation with a good friend of mine who was dying of stage four cancer many years ago, and he was in his early 30s. And, you know, we had come to that conclusion collectively through that to that conversation was like, you can't change it. There's immutable qualities that we all have, like, we can't change many things about us or our existence, or the time that we were born or where we live or how we're living, but we can, we can change how we're living. We can change the choices that we make every day. And again, life is absolutely what we make it individually and as a collective here as a whole.

Peter: 47:12

Right. On that note, I think that's a good place to break. Daniel, thank you as always stimulating excellent conversation.

Daniel Curtis: 47:21

Yes, Peter. Thank you for your time, sir. And I look forward to continuing the conversations.

Peter: 47:26

Next episode.